big cud

[DWK]

Best cud I've found.

Anybody know if its listed?

[copper_poisoning]

Nice CUD Find!

Greg

[JeanK]

Nice one Dave! I did not find your coin in The Cud Book, and I do not know if there is an updated version of the book available.
Jean

[georoxx]

Nice one. Did you find it searching rolls..?

Congrats.

-Geo

[Cdiddle]

Very nice cud find. Congratulations.

[DWK]

Nice one. Did you find it searching rolls..?

Congrats.

-Geo


Yes. About an hour ago. Customer wrapped roll.

Dave Kearns

[jfines69]

Nice one Dave! I did not find your coin in The Cud Book, and I do not know if there is an updated version of the book available.
Jean
Jean,
I believe you are the resident CUD pro so this question is for you...
Is that a cud or from a chip that fell off another coin... I thought that on a cud the rim would be gone because the break was from rim to rim causing and entire section to fall out... Both pics show the rim still in place... Still a very nice find either way... Thanks Jean (Eagle Eye 2)... Good Hunting!!!

[celartu]

That pretty penny found error, Big Cud

[lineop3]

Ieee like it! Great find.

Aisha

[mustbebob]

Jim,
I know you directed your question to Jean, but I thought I would mention that the rims are on the coin blanks before they are struck. They are made by a machine called an 'upstart mill' which rolls the type 1 blank (no rim) on edge and pushes up the rim. This results in a type 2 blank which is then struck. A broken die with a piece of the edge of the die missing, produces a cud. Since there is no metal in that area , the rim would still be in place as you see it in the pics.

[JeanK]

I did a bit more research because The Cud Book does not give a full explanation about how the Cud is formed. The book from which the following is quoted is, "The Error Coin Encyclopedia", Fourth Edition by Arnold Margolis NLG, and Fred Weinberg, NLG.

"The cud error itself is the result of a die failure. When a die crack forms in the die metal, that crack is aggravated by successive strikes. In each strike the planchet metal is forced into the die crack, and it acts like a wedge. The strikes, causes the die to fail. This failure consists of a segment of the die actually breaking away, leaving a void in the die face. It should be noted that for these discussions the die break will always include a portion of the rim area of that die design. The broken away segment will always carry a portion of the rim area design of that die with it.

All coins struck by that defective die will have an area on the struck coin which has not be shaped into a coin design, since the die was missing that part. The 'unstruck' area of the coin will retain the unformed shape of the Type Two blank planchet with the upset rim. It is this unformed area which is the 'cud' about which we speak.

The cud area will always occur starting at the rim at some point, and extend inward on the coin's surface, and then return to the rim at another point. It can happen either on the obverse or reverse dies.

In the case of the reverse die which is usually the lower die of the die pair of that press, it is surrounded by the collar die which is a fairly massive assembly.
A reverse die which cracks and develops a broken segment may not lose that segment, since it is held in place by the collar assembly. If this happens, the loose die segment remains jammed inside the collar and remains in place, capable of creating an impression on the struck coin.

That retained die segment will produce a 'Retained Cud', usually on the reverse design of that coin. The key to identification of this type will be the secondary design shift. That is, the features on the coin created by that loose but retained die segment, will appear to be slightly shifted and displaced from its normal position. There will be a noticeable discontinuity in the design features along with a line of demarcation which presents the actual fracture line of the die segment.

Eventually that die segment will fall away and be lost. After that, all coins struck by that incomplete reverse die will have a fully unstruck area where the die section is missing.

Cud errors often occur in the portion of the die design which is closest to the leading edge of the feeder fingers. If a malfunction occurs in the press and the feeders hit the die shafts when feeding new blanks into the collar and pushing struck coins off the lower die face, that blow tends to weaken the die. Repeated smashes of the feeders against the dies will eventually cause the die to develop cracks and fail. Therefore, certain positions on the coins are more likely to have the cud error than others."

There is another section that explains The Collar Cud. But I should hold off and post that separately.

My Thanks to Mr. Margolis and Mr. Weinberg for their ability to teach me something every time I open this marvelous book. All error and variety hunters should have a have a copy of "The Error Coin Encyclopedia" in their reference library.

Jean

[jfines69]

Thank you both so very much Bob and Jean... I love it when I learn... I really appreciate all the info!!!
Jim