Teletrade Information

[Brad]

Don't trust Teletrade info:

Small Cent 1970S Small Date FS-1401 PCGS 64 RDhttp://www.teletrade.com/images/isregistry.gif
http://www.teletrade.com/images/paypalccards23.gifPCGS has certified a mere two coins at this level as FS-1401 with none finer.

http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=3003&lot=1061&imagetype=j

[jcuve]

Is it the, "Mere two coins at this level" you do not trust? Their population statements are pure poppycock and based on who knows what...

[Brad]

Is it the, "Mere two coins at this level" you do not trust? Their population statements are pure poppycock and based on who knows what...


I know exactly what it is based on.

It costs $24 extra to have PCGS put "Small Date FS-1401" on the slab.

It is free to have PCGS put "Small Date" on the slab.

Thus, there are thousands with "Small Date" few with "Small Date FS-1401" on the slab.

It is very deceiving. They do the same thing with Brown and Red Brown coins:

Small Cent 1947 PCGS 62 BN
http://www.teletrade.com/images/paypalccards23.gifNearly Choice. Brown. Well struck. Pleasing surfaces. PCGS has certified this single coin at this level with a mere three finer.
http://www.teletrade.com/coins/lot.asp?auction=3005&lot=1174

[Jim]

Great point Brad and that is very misleading. I have purchased quite a few from Teletrade and will be sure to take that into thought.

Thanks Jim

[jcuve]

I see what you mean about the 1401 Brad, but sometimes I feel it defies logic. I'll see some variety claiming to have a low population, with a particular designation and none higher or one higher - however - a search of past (or current) sales shows sold Teletrade examples with the same designation, a different serial and a number greater than suggested with a higher grade. Or, two coins with the exact same grade and designation, sold at the same time, have two different population numbers - which won't even be close. The next time I see something I will post here and gets some opinions...

[coppercoins]

The slabbing companies often defy logic. It's also a stumper to me as to why the FS system would list a coin that's not a die variety.

[liveandievarieties]

A great example of a FS variety that's not a die variety is the 1969-D No FG FS-901. I picked a dozen and a half out of BU rolls, sent in one, got the attribution with a grade of MS-63RD, sold it on Teletrade for $300. (keep in mind, the price is set by the demand of the bidders, I don't control what people offer). The next coin got the attribution and slabbed at MS-64 RD, selling for $650, I was jacked! I sent in a half dozen of the same coins from the same group- PCGS denied attribution on all of them, except a dumb circ example I put in the submission for the heck of it.
By the way- those 1970-S FS-1401s were mine too- I realized that PCGS has created a strong market for FS varieties through their registry sets- Registry collectors aren't die variety enthusiasts, but rather they are generally wealthy collectors competing in a cutthroat competition. PCGS prices shouldn't be taken to have much bearing on a raw coin's value.

My comments may bring heated debate, I'm really interested in hearing the views of others. Personally, I feel pity for the person who choses to buy the slab and doesn't know enough to appreciate the coin inside it.

[Brad]

A great example of a FS variety that's not a die variety is the 1969-D No FG FS-901. I picked a dozen and a half out of BU rolls, sent in one, got the attribution with a grade of MS-63RD, sold it on Teletrade for $300. (keep in mind, the price is set by the demand of the bidders, I don't control what people offer). The next coin got the attribution and slabbed at MS-64 RD, selling for $650, I was jacked! I sent in a half dozen of the same coins from the same group- PCGS denied attribution on all of them, except a dumb circ example I put in the submission for the heck of it.
By the way- those 1970-S FS-1401s were mine too- I realized that PCGS has created a strong market for FS varieties through their registry sets- Registry collectors aren't die variety enthusiasts, but rather they are generally wealthy collectors competing in a cutthroat competition. PCGS prices shouldn't be taken to have much bearing on a raw coin's value.

My comments may bring heated debate, I'm really interested in hearing the views of others. Personally, I feel pity for the person who choses to buy the slab and doesn't know enough to appreciate the coin inside it.

Like you said, you can't control what people bid. I say take the money and rum. My problem is with Teletrade and their deceptive listings.

Is there an advantage to having an FS slabed 1970 S Small Date over a normal 1970 S Small date for PCGS?

[liveandievarieties]

Thank you SO much Brad, I been vilified else where for accepting bids on the open market...

Advantage to having the FS-1401 on the label? Only if you're a PCGS Registry Collector, they get points based on grade and rarity of each hole they fill in their set. With a super low population (it's simply that nobody has ever requested the attribution), the first people to add this coin to their collections get added points towards their set total.....I don't collect this way, but it does bring goal oriented order to collecting slabs.

For any variety enthusiast- Don't throw your money away on one of these, as it was pointed out, this is a $50 raw coin on a good day.

To further illustrate my point- I bought 2 PCGS MS65RD 70S cents in a Teletrade auction, had them reslabbed and now they're again registry coins, finest graded! They'll again bring stupid premiums..........goes back go my favorite adage- BUY THE BOOK BEFORE THE COIN!!!

[liveandievarieties]

I guess that what I'm explaining is this- there are 2 different markets in FS varieties- there's the guys like us who have a passion for varieties, who understand them and are familiar with their values based on rarity of actual existing populations and collector demand.
And then there are the Slab Buyers, who purchase a coin in relation to the grading service's purported rarity, not having anything to do with familiarity of the variety.
And for reeeallly rare die varieties, not listed in the Cherrypicker's Guide- these guys wouldn't pay a cent for.....just depends on your collecting goals I guess.

[jcuve]

Once in a while there is a nice die variety slabbed on Teletrade that I would be keen on purchasing, but alas the crazed slab collectors often bid the coins too high.

[liveandievarieties]

The key to buying varieties on TT is to go for the ANACS and ICG slabs- Both PCGS and NCG have strong registry followings that drive the price up for better grade examples. Keep in mind, neither of the big 2 make any mention of die state, so you're nearly buying a coin sight unseen. I've gotten incredible deals on ANACS coins and reslabbed them in PCGS holders. But some of the reeeallly neat varieties out there- the big 2 won't even attribute because it doesn't have an FS or VPO #.