1972P DDO 4? - I hope

[RWBILLER]

Hi:
Just found in a bank roll.
Looks like a 4?
Please help.
Thanks
Roger

[CCC]

Is there a die break or a cud to the west of LIBERTY at the rim?

[RWBILLER]

CCC:
No die break or cud.
Thanks
Roger

[1sgret]

DVN has also stated in an earlier thread that not all of the #4's have the rim cud's. Let Billy take a look and if he would clairify about the rim cud's presence.

[CCC]

DVN has also stated in an earlier thread that not all of the #4's have the rim cud's. Let Billy take a look and if he would clairify about the rim cud's presence.

Don't throw it back as Joe stated. Let DVN look at this thread.

[RWBILLER]

Joe:
I agree - I dont know if this cud or diebreak is on the top of the rim or extends into the face. The one I found a couple of weeks ago -the rim is a little worn and clear. This one is a stronger strike and in better condition. If I use a 17x loop - at 8'oclock there does appear a slight anomilie on the top of the rim. Both coins have the distinct clockwize doubling. Would help if some one has a picture of it (the cud or diebreak). The difference in the rarity (as you know) is quite "distinct$"
The other thing is the die maks,etc do not seem to match on each coin - again this could be early to late stage die stuff.
Thanks
Roger

[dvn]

First, let me say this, the other members are correct, don't throw it back. I have personally examined 3 Die #4's. Two had the rim cuds, one did NOT have the rim cuds. So, if one only just goes by thinking it has to have rim cuds could end up making a huge mistake. After all, when the Die #4 first started in the press, it didn't have rim cuds then.

Another die (which is in my files as Die #10, I don't know about other attributer's files in regards to what specific number they have assigned) looks very similar to Die #4 but other die markers are different between the two dies.

[1sgret]

The only picture that I know of is the one in CPG 4th Ed Vol 1 on page 143, (FS#1C-033.54) I lack this one in my collection and I have not seen one at any of the shows I have attended. Let Billy add more after he looks at your pictures. You proably need to take one of the rim and LIBERTY together if you can. The rim cuds would show up if it is the right stage. The L in Liberty would have an extra bottom on the inside of it. This is what the book indicates.

[dvn]

The one with the cuds run only on the rim. The are from K-8 to about K-10.

The coin you show is a CCW shift so that is a good thing because Die #4 is rotated CCW. The spread in your pic looks about right but still hard to tell. Closer shot is needed.

Let me stress that I'm not saying it is a Die #4, the coin would need to be examined and verified. As previously stated in this thread, there is a lot of price difference between a genuine Die #4 and other dies for that 1972 date.

[1sgret]

Thanks Billy for the clairification on the rim cuds. That helps.

[CCC]

The one with the cuds run only on the rim. The are from K-8 to about K-10.

The coin you show is a CCW shift so that is a good thing because Die #4 is rotated CCW. The spread in your pic looks about right but still hard to tell. Closer shot is needed.

Let me stress that I'm not saying it is a Die #4, the coin would need to be examined and verified. As previously stated in this thread, there is a lot of price difference between a genuine Die #4 and other dies for that 1972 date.

Do you have a photo of this coin? It would be very informative to me and everyone else here. I personally am interested.

[RWBILLER]

Joe:
Found a picture in the Ken Potter book - it is a Die 4 - there is a diebreak cud on the rim next to liberty - my daughter verified it.
Thanks again - Joe - Thanks
Roger

[CCC]

Sound's like it's a EDS coin. Way to go Roger!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[JeanK]

Super find Roger and daughter!
Congrats!
Jean

[1sgret]

Nice find and Congrats.

[AgCollector]

Joe:
Found a picture in the Ken Potter book - it is a Die 4 - there is a diebreak cud on the rim next to liberty - my daughter verified it.
Thanks again - Joe - Thanks
Roger

If you're talking about Potter and Allen's "Strike it rich with pocket change" I wouldn't trust a thing when it comes to 1972 DDOs: among other things, they show the EXACT SAME COIN as an example for die #2, #7 and #8- the date photo is the same one! If any one has this book they can verify this by looking at the little chip on the numeral 1 that's 1/3 of the way down, as well as the little chip half-way down the 7 numeral and finally the dark spot right next to the 1 digit. Same coin.

At least the other photos for dies "7" and "8" are different, but almost every picture of their die #2 and die #7 is the same coin.

[1sgret]

That is why I stated that the CPG 4th Ed Vol #1 has a picture of the rim cuds and placement. However as Billy stated the coin should be verified and attributed as this is the most sought after in the 1972 series to complete the collection and the most expensive.