Cleaned Coin Question

[Hawkeye]

I apparently need a lesson in cleaned coins. I found what I thought was a pretty spiffy 1927 Lincoln. Posted it on a different site and it was pointed out that the coin was "harshly cleaned". I only got a bit of feedback about how to tell if the coin was cleaned. Here's a link to the page http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=38685&whichpage=13 and just look for the 1927 or my user name of Hawkeye.

I was hopeful that someone could point me to either a web page or thread on here that would help bring me up to speed on how to tell if a coin has been cleaned.

Also, are there different opinions on cleaning? Since posting that coin I've checked with two stores in my area that tell me the coin is next to worthless after cleaning. Then, while on a business trip to Charlotte, a shop down there said it isn't that big a deal. They just sell cleaned coins for a little less and pay a little less.

Thanks in advance!

Hawkeye

[Steven]

This might help a bit..

http://www.telecoins.com/faq2.html#CLEAN2

[fugnchill]

Hi Hawkeye,

You should get some good responses here. I don't personally know of any threads/websites specifically about cleaning, they just mention it and comment a little. My view on the subject: There are 3 levels of "cleaning" - (1)Whizzing, using a tool to remove damage. (2) Harsh/Heavy cleaning - using an acidic chemical or abrasive material to remove damage or dirt. (3)Restoration - non-abrasive, non-acidic chemical to remove dirt & grime (goo-gone/verdi-gone). Usually restoration is not detectable unless an abrasive cloth and pressure was used to do the cleaning ( I use goo-gone for the build-up).

How to tell if a coin has been cleaned? Look at your coin... Does it look natural like the other coins in the pile or the pictures that you see on the internet? A harshly cleaned coin will have the scrapes and gouges but with a glossy look and dull detail to the relief (design detail).

Now, the OLD harsh cleaning: Couldn't really tell you! I would assume the scrapes and gouges would be there but not the glossy look. I've never really paid attention to it.

As for the coin shops: It depends on their location (supply & demand) and of course what denomination/year/MM and over all condition. I'll take a 1922 Plain die pair 2 or 3 with OLD harsh cleaning anyday.

I hope this helps and others chime in but you can always look at the auction sites and read the labels of graded coins stating that their cleaned and compare or study "how the coin looks". Heritage.com is a great one. They have huge, great quality pics and auction off the coins we wish we had.

Thanks for asking,
Lestrrr

P.S. - If anyone wants to explain about OLD harsh cleaning, I'm listening!

[fugnchill]

Oh sure Steven, take the easy way. I must really type slow because no one responded when I started typing. Thanks for the link. I have to go read it now to see how accurate I am and learn about old cleaning.

Thanks again,
Lestrrr

[Steven]

Here's one that looks to have old harsh cleaning.. It's a 1972P-1DO-007 I just found. It's lettering is more rounded or smoothed out. Kind of like tapering the devises into the field by rubbing, brushing or whatever means. Also looks to be fine pitting as well. Rather than being shiney it has darkened whether naturally or with some help I can't tell.
I'm sure there are better explainations about this out there somewhere.

Oh sure Steven, take the easy way.:LOL_Hair:

[trails]

I probably could write more than a couple of pages on "cleaned" coins and to what purpose it serves in doing so. So, to keep it very simple

1. If a coin is "cleaned" to preserve its appearance (getting rid of the dirt in the recesses, the Verdi Gris {green stuff} or a film, or lacquer) then it is permissible.

2. If a coin is "cleaned" to deceive someone into thinking that it is the next grade up or higher (whizzing, polishing, dipping or any method to induce a more enhanced look) is not permissible and the coin should be dropped several grades from its apparent overall grade.

I took a look at your 1927 Lincoln cent and it does appear from the picture that your coin was cleaned. However, photographs are not the defining bases for a conclusion for they can be doctored and the color can often be misleading. Only an in hand analysis can determine if a coin has been cleaned or not.

BJ Neff

[morel]

Normally if you want top dollar out of any of your coins when you sell them, don't clean them... If they need cleaning and they are high dollar coins I would have http://www.ncscoin.com/
clean them, because improper cleaning of the coin could cost you hundreds, thousands or remove all value from your coin.
If you find coins with a metal detector and were not high value but are in need of cleaning, I would use Goo Gone or soak them in olive oil (is acidic and can damage coins if left in it to long) until all garbage is loose and rinse them in hot water until all of the olive oil has disappeared and use a hair drier on air only to blow off any remaining water so that no water spots are left on the coin and you will have a nice looking coin.
I have attached 2 photos of a 1931s which was cleaned, that I bought. I ended up paying only $65 for it because it had been cleaned, had it not been cleaned it would have been worth a minimum of $200.
Dale

[Hawkeye]

Thank you everyone! I've gone through the links and feel like I know a lot more. As for the 1927 that I directed you to, I now see that the orange color should have been a tip off for me ;) Unfortunately, I just bought a 09 vdb that I'm sure I over paid for, now I suspect it was cleaned as well. I'd post a picture, but I don't think I want to know.

Am I remembering right, is there a thread on here where you can post an eBay auction for opinions prior to bidding? I'd sure like you folks to weigh in prior to my wasting money in the future. I suppose the real trick is to stay away from eBay and buy from reliable sources, eh?

[1sgret]

You can post a Link here on this thread and ask opinions about the auction:

http://www.lincolncentresource.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?s=&daysprune=&f=11

[fugnchill]

Hi Hawkeye,

Thought I would throw my 2 cents in about ebay purchases. I learned the hard way! I would recommend spending your hard earned money on reference material to learn what to look for. "Buy the book before the coin". I know it's tempting on ebay though. If your uncomfortable with your knowledge of numismatics then only buy graded coins from a reputable TPG. You could also post a link to the auction on this forum and ask for opinions but keep in mind that we're collectors/investors also. I mentioned that I learned the hard way, before I bought my books and joined forums. I paid $2000 for a graded coin by GGC (Garbage Grading Company). I held onto it until gold prices went up and sold it through Heritage.com but they don't accept that grading company so they submitted it to Anacs and it came back like 4 or 5 grades lower! It sold for around $400 -$600. Lesson Learned!

Happy Hunting,
Lestrrr