1994-P rotated die

[closelook]

Found this one in a bank bag. The black mark on the obv. and rev. are back to back on the flip.

[RWBILLER]

Hi:
It looks to be in the tollarance of the mint 1-10% i believe. Joe knows for sure.
roger

[fugnchill]

He doesn't bother with anything below 45% though. To each his/her own.

Lestrrr

That's because he knows where the money is for rotated coins.:LOL_Hair:

[JeanK]

Aw gee, a rotated die is fine with me at any percent. Besides, it is a nice looking coin!
Jean

[1sgret]

I have always understood from my readings that the Mint considers 7% is within tolerance but I won't argue with Fred W. on errors.

I have to agree with Jean it is still rotated and a good lookin coin. Besides that I can't seem to find any except for a proof coin I have from the 60's. Nice find .

[1sgret]

Lestrrr: Somehow I got on the wrong thread and edited yours instead of responding to it. Sorry about that. My response is below yours. I cut part of your response off about the 24% rotation from Fred Weinberg.

Please go back to your edit and add your complete comment back in to the thread. Sorry!

[closelook]

the coin is rotated allmost 180 deg. Look at black marks I made on the flip. If you put a needle thru the obv. mark it would go thru the rev. mark. I should have fliped the rev. pic around

[AgCollector]

the coin is rotated allmost 180 deg. Look at black marks I made on the flip. If you put a needle thru the obv. mark it would go thru the rev. mark. I should have fliped the rev. pic around

1994 is well known for 165 CW and 165 CCW rotations- that's probably what you have. Nice find!

[Brad]

1994 is well known for 165 CW and 165 CCW rotations- that's probably what you have. Nice find!

I agree. As soon as I saw this post I thought 165 degrees. If you search around you will see a lot of old posts about 1994 cents rotated 165 degrees. I have one.

[fugnchill]

15%, 24%, Fred Weinberg, 45% (Cliff notes of response) :)

Happy Hunting,
Lestrrr

[mousey70]

Idon't agree that it is a 165* ccw. Have mine in front of me and cannot match the photo. Looks to be about 15-18* ccw. Nice cent and good eye but pretty close to being common.

[closelook]

Idon't agree that it is a 165* ccw. Have mine in front of me and cannot match the photo. Looks to be about 15-18* ccw. Nice cent and good eye but pretty close to being common.

I'm not sure what your matching it up to but it is rotated allmost 180 deg.

[mousey70]

Here's what I got. First picture is normal
Second picture just flipped over side to side.
Third picture flipped 180*

[closelook]

I had the feeling there was going to be alot of confustion when I posted this coin.
Here are 2 pics with the coin fliped 180 deg. Hope this helps.

[mousey70]

I also checked the r0tated coin die census site and no coin listed is over 180*. Yes, I know it hasn't been updated for months but I don't believe there is a coin rotated 195* CW listed anywhere. Also there is no standard for expressing rotation in degrees but I think the Census is a good place to start.

[mousey70]

Wow 165* CW, we have brother and sister but which one is which. Very nice find. Never heard of a cent having equal but opposite rotations. And in the same year and mint.

[closelook]

1994 is well known for 165 CW and 165 CCW rotations- that's probably what you have. Nice find!

The one Brad posted matches the one I have.

[Brad]

I am surprised by this too. They seem to be each rotated 165 degree but one is Clockwise and the other is Counter-Clockwise.

[AgCollector]

Since I have one of each, maybe this will shed some light on this unusual die: here's a couple "quick & dirty" photos of a 1994 rotated 165 CCW, (on left), a 1994 rotated 165 CW (on right) and a nice 1998 wide AM in the center for reference (with no rotation).

For the reverse, you can see that they are aligned so that if they were normal rotation (0 degrees), they would line up with the 1998 in the center. You can see how each is rotated the same amount, but in opposite directions.

[Brad]

Since I have one of each, maybe this will shed some light on this unusual die: here's a couple "quick & dirty" photos of a 1994 rotated 165 CCW, (on left), a 1994 rotated 165 CW (on right) and a nice 1998 wide AM in the center for reference (with no rotation).

For the reverse, you can see that they are aligned so that if they were normal rotation (0 degrees), they would line up with the 1998 in the center. You can see how each is rotated the same amount, but in opposite directions.

Nice work!

[mustbebob]

Very nicely done on the comparison photos!

[RWBILLER]

Hi:
It is a 165% exactly the same as mine and Brad's.
Great find - i did not look at your pic's right. What's the $ value on these? I think someone said $65,
Roger

[DWK]

Hi:

Mine is like Brad and Closelook's. Maybe that one is more common than Mousey's.

DWK

[dvn]

Since I have one of each, maybe this will shed some light on this unusual die: here's a couple "quick & dirty" photos of a 1994 rotated 165 CCW, (on left), a 1994 rotated 165 CW (on right) and a nice 1998 wide AM in the center for reference (with no rotation).

For the reverse, you can see that they are aligned so that if they were normal rotation (0 degrees), they would line up with the 1998 in the center. You can see how each is rotated the same amount, but in opposite directions.

On your 1994's, do you have a die gouge at the upper right of the letter "D" of GOD?

Billy (dvn)

[DWK]

Hi Bllly: This is DWK.

FYI picture of my GOD. Mine is rotated like Brad's and close look's

Lets see both of AG's if poss.

Dave Kearns

[AgCollector]

On your 1994's, do you have a die gouge at the upper right of the letter "D" of GOD?

Billy (dvn)

Hi Bllly: This is DWK.

FYI picture of my GOD. Mine is rotated like Brad's and close look's

Lets see both of AG's if poss.

Dave Kearns

Yep, I have that same gouge on both of those rotated reverses - 165 CW and 165 CCW.

Also on another 165 CW I have around.

So, that means it was stable, unstable, then stable again?

[DWK]

Anyone know how the hammer and anvil dies are seated in the press?

Is it possible to be seated stablely but in the wrong position?

DWK

[mikediamond]

Anyone know how the hammer and anvil dies are seated in the press?

Is it possible to be seated stablely but in the wrong position?

DWK

In the Bliss press the dies are reportedly anchored with three bolts. I don't know about other presses. Stable rotated die errors are presumably due to improper installation, grinding "flats" in the wrong place, which leads to improper installation, or tightening a loose die without checking to see if its orientation is correct.

[mikediamond]

Yep, I have that same gouge on both of those rotated reverses - 165 CW and 165 CCW.

Also on another 165 CW I have around.

So, that means it was stable, unstable, then stable again?

Now, that is interesting. It would appear that the rotated die was unstable, at least for part of the press run.

[dvn]

Yep, I have that same gouge on both of those rotated reverses - 165 CW and 165 CCW.

Also on another 165 CW I have around.

So, that means it was stable, unstable, then stable again?

I have the same die gouge and I have examined examples with each coin exhibiting various degrees of rotation. I even have one with the same die gouge and its correct alignment.

Billy (dvn)

[1sgret]

That's one example I do not have in my collection as I have never come across a major one in circulation.

[AgCollector]

That's one example I do not have in my collection as I have never come across a major one in circulation.

Have you ever found the other known major rotations? 1966, 1972-D, 1973-D, 1993-D? They seem to be far rarer than the 1994 from what I can tell.

[1sgret]

Have you ever found the other known major rotations? 1966, 1972-D, 1973-D, 1993-D? They seem to be far rarer than the 1994 from what I can tell.

In all my years of searching I have never found any of the major rotated dies. I have found some with 7-10% rotation only.:(