Missing number on date

[MintyFresh]

I have several steel pennies that, either, do not have, or have a faint impression, of the number 4 in date. It is like a phantom. can anyboy enlighten me to this condition, and if it is common?

Thanks iin advance.

[mustbebob]

You will find this a lot of 1943 cents, and it sometimes encompasses just the 4, the 4 and 3, or the mintmark. There are a number of things that could lead to this condition. Die wear and/or die deterioration are the most common reasons. A filled die is another possibility. There is no premium associated with theses because they are so prevalent for the date.

[MintyFresh]

Thanks for the insight!

[MintyFresh]

You will find this a lot of 1943 cents, and it sometimes encompasses just the 4, the 4 and 3, or the mintmark. There are a number of things that could lead to this condition. Die wear and/or die deterioration are the most common reasons. A filled die is another possibility. There is no premium associated with theses because they are so prevalent for the date.
i got to thinkng about your explination and now wonder, what is the difference between this and the 1922 weak-D? What makes the 1922 so special? I have searched though many rolls of steel pennies and have rarely seen this attribute.

Just some thoughts...

[JeanK]

Hi Minty,

All of the 1922 Lincolns were suppose to have a D mint mark. From what I read there were three die pairs. Die pair #2 produced what is called a "No D", like my avatar.
I have read differing reasons for this anomaly, including extremely worn dies, or possibly a mint employee, over time during regular maintenance of the dies, filed the D off die pair #2 until it was no longer visible. Because I have no idea exactly what did happen, all I can say is the experts agree on one fact, the dies were either very or extremely worn. This condition probably produced varying degrees of sharpness on the mint mark from the three pairs of dies.

There are many years when letters or numbers seem to be just a shadow of their former self, or completely missing. From reading three different sources I think most of these coins had gunk or grease on the die which can obscure a letter and not allow it to be formed. Remember, the die has machine engraved lettering which is prone to being filled in with one thing or another during the minting process. Debris from many items have been found making their mark on coins as they are being struck. This can lead to happy finds by variety hunters.

That 1943 steel penny is actually zinc coated steel. It is quite likely there were problems with debris or grease filled dies which could cause the shadowy fours and threes. Die deterioration can cause similar results. I have found a number of both types of 1943's. Unless the coin is a variety or has an unusual anomaly I either put it aside or recycle it.

I do not know if this helps with understanding some of the reasons why missing letters or numbers occur.

Personally,I think a mint employee messed with the dies or minting process to cause these anomalies we are seeing now. :) I know it is probably not true, but I can imagine it happening.
Jean

[hasfam]

There is no premium associated with theses because they are so prevalent for the date.

And yet, I frequently see these selling on eBay for $3-5 dollars each. Strange. Same thing with the poor man's 1955 doubled die, which of course is not a doubled die at all but die wear. They seem to sell even better than many true qualified varieties. Again, it's just strange.

Rock

[mustbebob]

I certainly see some of these things sell on auctions. My statement should have said there 'should' be no premium associated with these. Most of these are bought and sold by people who are uneducated about them, or sold by people who know what they are, but try to make a buck by selling to unsuspecting people. Of course, if it's something you like to collect, then that is what determines their collectibility as well.

[MintyFresh]

Sorry, not my thing to take advantage of the unsuspecting... I would be suspect of anything you'd put up for sale, ;-)

[JeanK]

Look at it this way, if the coin is in very good condition it could be worth a dollar or so to a collector who cannot find one in circulation, and does not want to pay for the best of what is available.
Jean

[MintyFresh]

Look at it this way, if the coin is in very good condition it could be worth a dollar or so to a collector who cannot find one in circulation, and does not want to pay for the best of what is available.
Jean
good point, but that is to a suspecting collector who would is looking for a specimine. That is ethical to sell to him/her. It was the "unsuspecting" remark that drew my thought. Anyhow, I thought it interesting. I did some further reading by your post and now understand the history and varying varieties of 1922 http://www.lincolncentresource.com/1922Ddievarieties.html. Very interesting. I had only remebered on senario about the grease theory and really ddin't understand what all the fuss was about. Very cool story of how someone just removed the D to "expidite" the production schedule... Thanks for informative explanation.