Stages?

[CCC]

Can someone explain the different stages that a Die goes through. Stage A , B, etc. I see Stage in post's but I don't understand the difference. Is it the more the die is used it show's different sign's of aging?

CCC

[Wheat Cents]

Is it the more the die is used it show's different sign's of aging?

CCC

Pretty much what you said above is correct, with the addition that there could be external forces are at work here too.

First it should be noted... Stages and Die States should not be confused.

States are simply a progression based when the die goes into production and designated : Very Early though Very Late (VEDS – EDS- MDS- LDS-VLDS) . This actually applies for both REV and OBV dies. Working dies are many times changed out one at a time making for interesting pairings or die marriages. ( like an LDS OBV and an EDS REV )

Stages on the other hand , are based on the progression of the die caused by a many factors including fatigue, scratches, clashes, cracks, polishing, chips, and gouges. The press it self can cause a change in the stage of a die if it scratches the die or the stage could change on an Early Die State die by a worker simply dropping it. Maybe after which it may have been polished and returned to service.

These die stages are the tell tale die markers we look for when trying to attribute varieties.

When varieties are submitted some times they come in as a group as later date RPMs from one submitter and sometimes a single specimen from several variety hunters. Examining all specimens in context with others allows a more definite die stage progression to be made. Some of those 1950s RPMs came in and allowed 10 or more stages to be determined.

Thank goodness for attributers!

[CCC]

Thank's Wheat. Where can one assume that a die state changes from A to B then to C and so on? I haven't found a chart to go by so that's why I ask this question. Perhap's that's comes with experience.

CCC

[Wheat Cents]

Where can one assume that a die state changes from A to B then to C and so on? I haven't found a chart to go by so that's why I ask this question. Perhap's that's comes with experience.

CCC

First of all die States do not changes from a to b then to c. Stages do and can change to z.

Die State theory was developed by Delma Romines. VEDS is sharp lettering without metal flow lines. ( though I do not beleive that is possible . So let's say minimal metal flow lines) VLDS has very strong metal flow lines and design features are not as sharp. This aspect can and does play into an MS65 66 67 68 making its grade.

Experience comes in to play. That's why I said "Thank goodness for attributers!" they have examined enough of the coins to make that determination providing as much infomation so we in turn can use the defined STAGES of prgression of die fatigue etc. to correctly identify varieties. Attributers look at a lot coins yet sometimes are only pesented with a couple samples so many die STATES are unconfirmed.

A good read is J Wiles book page iv through vii and a good example page to reference is J. Wiles' book page 128. It reviews the progression or STAGES against the die STATE ( ie EDS-MDS-LDS -and VLDS )

[CCC]

Experience comes in to play . That's why I said "Thank goodness for attributers!" they have examined enough of the coins to make that determination providing as much infomation so we in turn can use the defined STAGES of prgression of die fatigue etc. to correctly identify varieties. Attrubuters look at a lot however many DIE STATES are unconfirmed.

A good read is J Wiles book page iv through vii and a good example page to reference is J. Wiles' book page 128. It reviews the progression or STAGES against the die STATE ( ie EDS-MDS-LDS -and VLDS )

A good reminder Wheat:) Sometimes a good book makes a good nite sleep. Thank's

CCC

[Wheat Cents]

It put me to sleep ... good night..

[trails]

I like "Wheat Cents" explanation and what he says is correct. Another way to look at it is; die state is the progression of the die's age. Die stage is the identification of the die state and die markers on a variety die.

As a discernible die marker (usual seen with magnification under 10 X) or a change in die state is observed, the die stage changes, progressing from "A" and through the alphabet as each addition takes place. Even changing of the die (obverse or reverse) will merit a die stage change.

BJ Neff